Every young adult wrestles with the question, “What makes a boy a man?” This timeless question is the subject of the new film, Daniel Isn’t Real, from Elijah Wood’s film studio, SpectreVision. Directed by Adam Egypt Mortimer (Some Kind of Hate) and based on the novel, In This Way I was Saved, by Brian DeLeeuw, the film follows the 20-year-old Luke (Miles Robbins), a young man struggling with his mental health who is reunited with his imaginary friend, Daniel (Patrick Schwarzenegger), after having locked him away when he was just a little boy. Daniel helps Luke to assert himself and build his self-confidence, but his influence quickly spirals out of control, leading to disastrous consequences.

While promoting the release of Daniel Isn’t Real, Miles Robbins spoke to Screen Rant about his work on the film. He talks about the themes of the film, particularly the toxic masculinity that plays such a key part in defining the characters and the role they play in the film. He talks about learning about incel culture while preparing for the film and laments the systemic issues that cause good young men to go bad.

Daniel Isn’t Real is out now in theaters and On Digital.

I’m really excited to talk to you about Daniel Isn’t Real. I talked to Patrick the other day, and he was great. We talked about the toxic masculinity that his character represents within you, but how he’s kind of like a demon that’s inside of everyone, but men in particular. I was wondering if you could talk a bit about that and how that kind of permeated your performance?

I definitely think it does, and I love it for that.

That’s certainly the lens through which I was most viewing Daniel’s influence on Luke. I think there is a lot in this film that is abstract, that is metaphor, and I think that’s wonderful, because we’re not telling you what to think about it, what to feel about it. We’re just providing a story for you to project your own experience onto. But in my experience and what I was kind of most attracted to about the story and their relationship, is that Daniel is this voice in his head, more or less, that is instructing him about what it means to become a man, in a lot of ways. The language that he uses about women, he treats women as if they are some kind of obtainable object. He talks about “getting” girls. He’s very predatory in that way. So, yeah, I think that, for me, Daniel represents this culture, the thought process that a lot of young boys and young men experience as essential thought patters for male adulthood… Which is hopefully something that I want to challenge. And I hope that this film, perhaps, shows the nastiness and toxicity of that thought process.

It’s something like, I’m thinking about people watching the movie, and I wonder if there are some who don’t realize where it’s going until way after everyone else has, and what their reaction will be.

And, you know, Daniel is this kind of creature in his head. He’s showing Luke a sort of self-confidence, but it is inherently toxic, inherently destructive. You know, even before things get really out of hand, you can tell that Luke is exhausted by this. I think that it’s my goal to provide an empathetic character, so you can see how he could get manipulated through the culture of this thought process, into becoming someone who is dangerous to himself and the people around him. Hopefully, seeing that will provide some kind of empathy for those people who are vulnerable in our society and do become dangerous to themselves and to others.

It’s like a hot spring that’s actually a tar pit.

Right. I think a lot of people didn’t get that Rorschach is a bad guy in Watchmen until, like, very recently, you know? (Laughs) There’s definitely… It can take a long time. It is subtle, but I think some of the best stuff is where something happens and it might take a second… Because if Daniel was immediately, obviously evil, then why would Luke want to go with him? These evil, toxic mentalities have a certain attractiveness to them, don’t they? Young boys who are awkward or nervous or anxious, they find self-confidence in a way of looking at the world that is toxic. Like, of course it’s going to be attractive to them, because they gain self-confidence through it, they think that’s what it means to be a man, and what men “deserve,” and it ultimately becomes a tragic thing later on.

That’s incredible. I love when a movie can be about so many things, can be a genre flick, so to speak, while being so thematically and psychologically dense.

In preparing for this, I looked at that as the main lens through which I would process this thing. I read a lot of pretty dark incel message boards and stuff. I was going around there, I watched that fu**** as***** Elliot Rodger, his manifesto, and these kinds of guys who enable each other. These people don’t come out of a vacuum. They come out of these communities, and these communities are propagating a certain kind of culture and worldview that is also not coming out of a vacuum. It is coming out of centuries of patriarchal society.  It’s very easy to detest these people, people who eventually become terrorists, and horrible individuals, but there’s also something to understanding that the issue is a systemic one. A lot of these people end up in these situations because of cultures that surround them, that worm their way into their ear, making them believe that a man is this, or a man is that, and if they’re not a man, what are they? I’ve experienced that, I think everyone who grows up a male experiences this idea of what it’s supposed to mean to become a man from a boy. You know, some people get lucky with the people they have around them to teach them, that a man can be complicated, can feel things, can be vulnerable. But other people aren’t always as lucky. I think Luke has this bad influence that gives him some self-confidence, but is ultimately really toxic, and he learns the hard way, through deep tragedy, what that can do to a person.

Absolutely. And plus, there’s an awesome sword fight!

That’s my perception of what the character meant to me, but what’s so wonderful about film and genre films especially, is that, through extraction, we can all experience our own experiences through this prism. I also hope that what it says about mental illness is relevant to people, and all these other kinds of relationships can also sit there and be there and be there for you and everyone else without my own take on it!

More: 10 Horror Movies With Terrifying Social Commentary

And there’s a sword fight! There are cool special effects! I got to put on a cool rubber mask and become a spaghetti monster, and that’s what I’ve always wanted to be.

Daniel Isn’t Real is out now in theaters and On Digital.